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Jun28
eBay employee talks GBuy vs Paypal - calling GBuy (Google Checkout) evil?

bully.gifeBay Strategies reported that an eBay employee, Rogelio Choy, "talked smack" about Google's GBuy in a recent blog post.

When I went to the employee's blog, no smack was to be found, just this nice little post:

Just want to remind folks who read this blog. Any and all posts that I write about are completely my personal opinion and are not representative of eBay's view, opinion or perspective on any subject matter. Apologies for any confusion on this.

A mystery! I like mysteries!

So I went back to eBay Strategies and found an update saying the post had been removed but the blog was cached in a zillion places and if you look here, you will find it.

I looked and found it and below you will find the deleted post for your reading pleasure:

GBuy vs. Paypal

I find it amusing how the general media is claiming GBuy will be a significant competitor to Paypal based on GBuy having near zero buyers actually using the service vs over 100MM using Paypal. Let's recall something here folks. In its current form, GBuy is a glorified merchant account.

By making GBuy free based on Adwords usage, the service might attract any number sellers who use keywords to generate business. (Please explain why this is any different than offering Internet Explorer free with MS' OS?) There are probably hundreds of thousands of sellers who use Adwords, and saving 2% on transaction fees while paying some materially larger % of sales on Adwords will generate seller interest. But let me make something clear... (clears throat) Until BUYERS actually accept and trust a payment mark en masse (ala Paypal or American Express), merchants won't adopt that mark en masse. The failure of Yahoo! PayDirect or numerous other payment services wasn't lack of seller interest. Yahoo! had tens of thousands of sellers using its payment mark for Yahoo! Shopping while other payment services offering cheaper rates, giveaways, affiliate payments, etc, were legion. The killer was the complete absence of consumer/buyer adoption.

Paypal's success was based on a lack of payment substitutes for millions of eBay marketplace sellers. Individuals who were selling on eBay had no access to opening a merchant account (and therefore no access to credit card payments). Paypal allowed millions of sellers to enable credit card/Paypal transactions for commerce on eBay, millions of sellers with billions of sold product listings. Buyers adopted the service because 1) it was free between Paypal users and 2) (no surprise) to buy those billions of listings. Over time, buyers placed an implicit trust with Paypal as a result, allowing Paypal to integrate to their financial accounts (whether via bank or credit card) to make buying all those products easier. Paypal become a payment standard on eBay long before eBay acquired the company (at the expense of eBay's own payment service, Billpoint). Simply, this trust was hard won.

Since GBuy is not a stored value service (ala Paypal), it has clear substitutes, competing directly with the merchant accounts of its advertisers. There are few 'individuals' leveraging keywords as a method for one off sales (and sorry, GBase is far far far from that reality). The real question is whether GBuy will be offered for free to integrate to a merchant's own site, when there is no (or limited) Adwords revenue being generated by said merchant on said sale (i.e. an online seller captures a buyer from Adwords but repeat purchases from that buyer are sourced directly on the merchant's site). I have some serious doubts that is even possible. Ultimately someone needs to pay the 2% piper (what Visa and Mastercard charge Paypal and Google for enabling credit card payments) and that feels like a money pit waiting to happen should GBuy head in that direction.

But if GBuy doesn't go this way, the number of transactions that will go through GBuy is limited to 1) those merchants that openly choose to manage two different payment flows and 2) sales accompanied by keyword click revenue. Simply put, these don't equal billions of transactions or millions of end consumers adopting the GBuy standard. Merchants will always prefer to be the merchant of record by maintaining their own merchant account (vs having Google be the seller of record via GBuy). Without that community base, GBuy is simply Greenzap with a 'better' (more evil?) seller proposition...

61 Comments/Trackbacks




Google aint evil :(

If paypal was considered a good company, I'd assume he'd be right, but people hate paypal, and deal with it because they have to, and Google has the love of enough people to seriously compete... but I can understand an employee of a competitor trying to convince himself his job is secure.

Lets all ask ouselves this, "how many of us use paypal?" "How many of us think it sucks, has NO customer service, costs too much, and operates borderline criminal?"

*Everyone raises thier hand*

Looks to me like Google won't have any problems getting accepted...

I'll raise my hand for that. I'd jump at using Google Checkout asap if only it was available in Canada. :-(

Fun stuff, how can people post about their companies when they have their names directly on their site? I thought people would be smarter than that. And to 'retract it' is just asking for 100s of mirrors to be brought to far more attention than the artcle ever would have. He should have just put that notice at the top of the existing article and let it ride.

Matt: Does google have customer service?

This guy is an idiot. How many websites non ebay use paypal? Not many at all, I'd say less than 10%. Why? because it's a pain in the butt. Gbuy will be so much easier. Google already has a trusted following, not yet in Gbuy, but in google search, blog, maps, earth, mail, cal.......... People like google products, they're free. People will use gbuy and it will work well for them. I'm excited not to have to type all that info in all the time, and it helps me track my shipments and purchases... AWESOME!!!

And http://paypalsucks.com/ is just a lie ? A scam ? Nah, after reading that site, i'd never EVER EVER use paypal !

Not even to order tissue paper.

And http://paypalsucks.com/ is just a lie ? A scam ? Nah, after reading that site, i'd never EVER EVER use paypal !

Not even to order tissue paper.

This sounds like Guerilla Marketing to me. Leave it up just long enough to let it be cached and then remove it but make sure the post (and it's removal) are made public. Generates buzz and makes people start to think...."wow, really, that's all Gbuy is? Those reasons sound good, I'm sticking with Paypal." This is nothing more than a free commercial for Paypal. I personally have nothing against Paypal and love most Google products, but call it what it is....advertising.

>> How many of us think it sucks, has NO customer service, costs too much, and operates borderline criminal?


Google has no customer service to speak of. GBuy and Paypal are priced very similarly. Google is going to bundle this service with ones that it has (Adwords, Urchin), until it crosses the line of anticompetitive behavior.

SSDD

Ha ha, everyone hates paypal and only uses it because there is no reputable alternative. Where do I sign up for GBuy?

Hah I love these comments, they ring SO true. I use PayPal but I hate it. I spent a few days doing research and that was the best option. (Google's #2 match for PayPal is PayPalSucks.com btw)

I have an online business with my mom and she deals with PayPal because she's an accountant. She's called me on a few occasions complaining about PayPal's "latest stunt." They a buncha batches.

I work for a mid-sized company with a significant internet marketing campaign. The majority of the money is spent in the Adwords program through Google, but we also work with Yahoo's Ad service (what use to be called overture) as well as MSN's new ad service. I DO have access to customer support, with an email address & phone num of a company representative for Google. In addition, she's actually helpful! Yahoo on the other hand has been one of the worst customer service experiences of my life. I've called them dozens of times for different problems with the same result - we can't answer your question, please send an email. I send an email, get a bot sending me a generic email back copied from their FAQ, with no concrete help. I haven't had to call MSN yet, but based on their past behavior, I expect their customer service to be more of a sales crew than support. "Oh, you're having a problem? Buy this product to solve it"

maybe it is one of the google marketing? hahah... anyway, i will never use paypal nor GBuy, unless there are some type of protection offer for the buyer. and why would i pay two companies (paypal or google plus the credit card company) for doing nothing??

Anybody who has ever sold more than 2 items on Paypal despises Paypal, esp. when they charge 3% even when buyers DON'T use a credit card. And Paypal customer service? What a joke! I would personally run right to the first real competitor to PeePool, and it that's Google, why sure!!!

woops, I meant to say "sold more than 2 items on EBAY". You know, the OTHER evil empire monopoly!

» eBay Employee Talks About Google’s GBuy and then Deletes Post - Full Post from Haiku Headlines | A Look at Some of Today's Headlines in 17 Syllables
“eBay employee Rogelio Choy trashed Google’s GBuy and then deleted the post from his blog. PowerSellerKing posts the original uncensored trashing.” In Web 3.0 We may have blog post delete But what fun is that? read more | digg story ... [Read More]

I think PayPal is in for a shock. While they captured the early marketshare, user experience with them will now drive everyone to a friendlier alternative. Paypal nightmares abound and in the end they are awful for both the buyer and the seller if anything goes wrong - I am happy to switch!

So maybe PayPal does suck...compared to having an actual merchant account, which PayPal and GBuy are trying to eliminate. However, let's not be so lovey-dovey with Google. Did anyone use GMail the first half year it was out? If GBuy is anything like the buggy/works when it wants to/no complaining allowed service that GMail was (and still is, in some ways), then it won't become a major player in this space.

Also, I'm sure antitrust lawyers everywhere in the e-commerce/online processing world will be doing a little research over the weekend/4th holiday.

Off to GBuy I go, no more PayPal for me.

What Rogelio fails to understand is that GBuy is a small piece of Google's master plan that will eventually marginalize eBay and PayPal. At some point eBay will be bought out by Yahoo! and in the end it will be Yahoo! vs. Google. It's inevitable.

Google DOES have customer service. Not just for paying customers of AdWords. I have emailed with comments, issues, and ideas on various "features" they offer and always get a real reply that is polite and useful.

PayPal is the devil - and I welcome any competition as I am tired of the mess PayPal causes.

I hate paypal and for none of the reasons the ex employee mentions. They know they're king and basicaly give themselves every right imaginable in their terms of use, short of murder, but if you actualy read to whole book that is their terms of use, you might just find they have that right too. Bottom line is they (paypal and ebay- because they're equaly bad so they were a good acquisition match) need competition... real competition and if there's any company that is in a good position to provide this comepetition, it's Google and I sincerely hope they take over the whole thing, including a good selling marketplace that will replace eBay.

Yes...when I couldn't find information on Paypal's site, I called, finally got the info, found I can't have a different home name from my business name, and asked the tech when "Gbuy" was coming out! I told the tech how much paypal sucked for finding info (and really, in general!)

The only reason why people have Paypal is because they have a monopoly on that type of service. I'm getting Gbuy as soon as it comes out!

After Paypal screwed over money destined for Hurricane Katrina victims (google: SomethingAwful Katrina) I canceled my account. Google Checkout isn't perfect but I'll work around it.

Go google! Oh I don't really care if it works. What I like is stiff competition in my vendors as it keeps them honest. Yahoo mail sucked until gmail got into the picture.

I use PayPal for buy and sell. It has warts, and once we did get scammed (which caused PP to disable our account for 2 business days..grrrrh). But, I will continue to use it for the foreseeable future because it DOES work, it IS reasonably reliable, and EVERYONE online knows how to use it.

I do agree with other posters. For the first year, GBuy sellers/buyers might as well put scam-bulls-eyes all over their websites.

Google's products are always "BETA" for the first couple of years....but it will scare the s&%t out of PP and that's good for me!

I can say that I will try it but that doesn't mean I would stick with them.
Most if not all sellers would still use Paypal as their means of getting paid and unless they all jump on the boat and maybe allow it as a alternative option then GBuy may not boom as much as it could.

This guy is living proof that you don't have to be too smart to work for google ... assuming he still does.

No buyer/merchant acceptance? Well it just rolled out today, for goodness sake.

I'm working right no won a redesign of one of my business istes. i never sold hard product online mainly becuase my only choice was PayPal or a merchant account that would not be cost effective at my proposed low volume. With Google, I feel I have someone on my side who might mak eit work ... with PayPal ... wouldn't even take the step to start

paypal is currently holding my $600 because of a chargeback. This is actually the 2nd time something like this happened. Now I'm out $600 and laptop.

Both Paypal and Ebay seem to invite eCriminals to prey on less than casual users like myself. Once i get this debt to paypal settled i will close my account ASAP. same with eBay.

Rogelio your going down!! SEE YOU AT WORK!!

No matter what you google fanboys think, google has far too much power and collects far too much information for our good. They themselves claim to store all your emails and data in perpetuity even after you delete it. Gmail has had its share of screwups. I've come across numerous cases of missing attachments and vanishing mails.

Not that paypal is great or anything, but it has been around and in use for a very long time. Still, I'd rather just pay with my visa card and deal with my bank.

Google replied immediately when i had a question about google checkout.

And the errors which people get are probably people outside of the US.

Hi,
I love google products because they are unique.I'm using Paypal and they are sucks on chargeback. Paypal took from me around $1000 so far. .. they just said unauthorised funds and they can't disclose the fact.

Fraud is a fact of life when offering a merchant account. There *will* be chargebacks on Google, you better believe it. What's worse is you won't even be able to contact the customer if they decline to give you their email address--all in the name of Google protecting their "privacy."

» Paypal und Google Checkout from Max' Webmaster / SEO Blog
Der Ebay Angestellte Rogelio Choy soll sich in einem Blogpost abfällig über Google’s Checkout geäußert haben. I find it amusing how the general media is claiming GBuy will be a significant competitor to Paypal based on GBuy ... [Read More]

GBUY will be gone in a year. There's no market demand for it, no need for it, and there's no added value that it brings to the table.

When I address a potential market need or opportunity, I look at what's available and what needs to be available.

GBUY is not something that will replace anything that's currently available in the market. It's also something that merchants will not be switching to from their current payment processing systems.

In short, GBUY is another vanity project that will fall by the wayside.


Google is already tracking enough about me, i wouldn't want to add the info about my financial transactions to that list.

Let's review this....
- Did google finance replace yahoo finance? No
- Did Gmail replace yahoo main? No
- Did Google talk replace yahoo/AOL/MSN IM? No, no where near.

Same theory applies to GBuy, googlebase etc...they would have hard time competing in those areas. Look at google 's profit numbers, they are making their 99% money from search unlike it's competeters.

In general, i would never do anything that is very important(like financial, personal stuff) on google. Google tracks a lot about you, so when they have too much info about you then imagine the possibilities...

He's kidding himself if he thinks sellers and buyers alike trust Paypal.

I know sellers don't trust Paypal when they freeze their Paypal "stored value" account and take more money out of their checking accounts, and I don't trust Paypal as a buyer for the same reason. I have also had problems with Paypal taking money out of my checking account, and charging me twice, etc.

I welcome a change. And adwwords is the exact reason GBuy will succeed. Sellers TRUST Google already, and most buyers do too. (I'm a sucker for the "do no evil crap")

Google reminds me of a movie called "The NET" where a Anti-Virus becomes a virus. Everyone is going behind Google hype and now ready to disclose thier financial background to Google with this... God bless you all!

http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/56/2156/summary.php

I disagree with the point 5 made by ex-PP employee. I bought an extra copy of fine art nude photography book from Amazon.com in order to get free shipping. Then I resold it on eBay and the buyer paid via PP. My PP account was closed by PP later. The reason .... I violated their adult material policy. When I checked out that policy on PP website, it is vague and so broad ... probably it is even broader than U.S. constitution. PP can even close an account when the seller sells a picture of topless mature woman, based on the so-called adult material policy. PP also held my money (in my PP account) for 180 days. The worst thing ... I was not allowed to appeal their decision! Another bad experience with PP is I paid but I never received the product. I filed a dispute on PP and eventually I won. But no money was refunded to me. Why? The seller account had no money. Buyer's protection? What was PP talking about?
PP sucks, sucks, and sucks! I welcome competition. This will help the monopoly to change its attitude & mentality.

I agree that the idea of giving google even more info to index is frightening. Face it, theyre out to index and catalog everything about everything. And, when it starts involving personal matters such as finances, it's unnerving.

But, I'm all for anything that will make PayPal worry. Maybe, just maybe, it will cause PayPal to improve their customer service. And maybe, just maybe, it will cause them to lower their fees. (Remember when PayPal promised to ALWAYS be free?)

So, will I use it on my website? Depends on how easily it integrates into my shopping cart program. Will I use it exclusively? No. I have a merchant account already and on eBay I accept PayPal. Am I happy to see it launched? Most definately!

» Helping Your Employees Blog from GoodRecruits
Encouraging your employees to openly blog can be a rewarding and valuable experience for the employee and the company as well.  Blogging gives a rare look through the "PR firewall" into a company's gut and allows your clients (yes, and c... [Read More]

Google Checkout customer is the best. When I contct paypal for somthing it takes 3-7 days to receive reply. Gbuy cusotmer service reply my email in less then 24Hours.

Paypal sucks and everyone know that.

Gbuy has two times lower fees then Paypal so I would love to use it whne it's available for German peoples.

Since Germans don't use credit cards,and that's the only payment option on Google Buy, don't look for adoption in Germany any time soon, bub.

Germans and Europeans have no need for credit cards as we can do cross-border bank transfers free of charge using BIC + IBAN. Also another reason why PayPal isn't popular in the EU. We are all used to paying cash rather than relying on credit. The only problem is with sending money to those poor cousins of ours in Amerika! They're all addicted to credit cards, revolving credit and minimum payments. ;-)

http://www.searchmarketingjournal.com/content/view/43/26/
Somebody has noted that the Google G-branding was held back for concerns of associate with G-string :) Pretty funny.

All sellers know that PP sucks and most all sellers wish they had an alternative.
But the prob is that most buyers trust and like PP. If a buyer doesnt trust it or like the payment system they wont use it. So see PP knows that they have the confidence of 100mil buyers and that is why they dont need to treat the sellers well. It is also why there is no other company going to come in and emediately be any competetion for PP. It will take time to tap into that thing that PP has going on. But they have 900.00 dollars of my money and wont free up my account.
I use a merchant account and a checkout sytem to sell on ebay I m a platinum PS,
but my checkout has probs constantly. wish i had a good alternative, but i dont G checkout isnt allowed on ebay, so if Im going to use it I need to diversify into other venues and my own website. I will definately give G checkout a chance and I hope they kick some PP butt, but it aint going to happen overnight. Hopefully buyer trust and usage will be high and they can grow the volume quickly.

I have concerns about PP and wish there was more professional way of doing ecommerce business.
http://www.ecommerce-land.com

Paypal suck. I'm selling stuffs on ebay and they suspended my account without reason. After faxing over and over, they restored my account and the next 3 days they suspended again and request the same information again. This was so stupid a** hole paypal.

Read it

As part of our security measures, we regularly screen activity in the PayPal system. During a recent screening, we noticed an issue regarding your account.

We have observed activity in this account that is unusual or potentially
high risk.

==== Another Email =====

Paypal requires a copy of certain documents for verification purposes to return your account to regular standing. For speedy processing, please use our customized cover sheet which contains a barcode to directly attach your faxed documents to your account.
Why do I need to do this?

Please fax each of the following documents:
- Valid photo ID
• Driver's License
• Passport
• Military Identification Card
- Recent statement
- Proof of address • Utility Bill
- Contact information (phone number, email, etc.) for your supplier or suppliers
Please ensure that your faxed documents are valid and legible. As always, any personally identifying information that you submit to PayPal will remain secure and will never be transmitted to any third party.


===== Another Email ========


We're sorry, but your account access limitation cannot be lifted at this
time. We need more information about your account before we can restore
full access to your account. Please complete the steps below so that we may
review your account further:

1. The tracking information that you have provided us shows that some
merchandise is currently in transit. Please contact us again once all the
tracking information shows the items have been delivered.

If you like PayPal, you're either ignorant or stupid. Let me explain that for you.

If you're one of the few lucky ones who hasn't had trouble with PayPal, you're just ignorant...uninformed. There's no problem with that. But your day is coming. I had my account closed by PayPal because of some bogus credit check. What's confusing to me about that is, I had no credit with PayPal. So why run a credit check? The fallout from that nearly ran me out of business and I'm still dealing with it today.

On the second point...stupidity...you've probably had problems with PayPal, but you keep using it anyway. Stupidity is, by definition, the failure or refusal to learn from your mistakes. If you're a seller and you're using PayPal, odds are you've had lots of problems. If you're defending PayPal even after that, you're stupid.

Now, is Google Checkout perfect? No. I have two issues with it. The first is obvious...it's difficult for non-U.S. customers to use right now. They can still sign up and use it (assuming their country is in the list), but it confuses folks when it falsely tells them you don't ship to their country. The second problem isn't so obvious...they either need to build in options for things like shipping methods or else allow you to use a 3rd party service. Don't force us to become experts in XML and APIs to use the service.

I'm assuming they'll be fixing all those issues as they go along. But it would be nice if they lifted some of the restrictions while they're getting to that point.

Now...for general discussion...anyone who thinks Google Checkout won't be a competitor to PayPal is deluding themselves. I get a kick out of reading some of these posts by people still employed by PayPal (don't lie, we all know you are) saying Google isn't offering anything new. Let's just look at Google's track record. How many new innovations has Google come out with? Tons. But common sense tells us that you have to have the system in place before you start emplementing new things. They've already started integrating Checkout features into Adwords and Froogle. At this point, it's more for advertising than anything, but I'll bet you any amount of money you want to throw away ('cause you'll lose the bet) that, at some point, all of those systems will be linked together. That's when eBay and PayPal will really start to feel the pressure. Advertise on Froogle for free and pay a little more if you want to get your ads to the top with Adwords. Give it three years and eBay will be scratching their heads wondering when the bottom fell out.

Personally, I welcome the demise of GreedBay and ScammersPal. Those two services put together form one big monopoly and it needs to be broken. Case in point, eBay's refusal to allow Google Checkout on their site. Why wouldn't they allow that payment method when they allow other payment processors? Simple...they know their days are numbered and Google is the executioner. They're going to do everything within their power to keep that competition out of the market. But all they're really doing is putting off the inevitable.

I've tried Google Checkout and like it for the most part. I just have those two issues. Unfortunately, those issues are fairly major for me, so I can't use it exclusively. I've had to go to another payment processor. But I'd still like to include Google Checkout once I figure out how to integrate it.

Well First i Must Agree This Guy Is Stupid I hate paypal and i cant wait till paypal Is broke There customer service sucks and all the care about is the buying not the seller.. Personally i like a site called alertpay.. they have more options...

Google is still young sighup give them the support and wait for us to have google as are payment as for this guy that wrote that he sounds like he works for s***ty paypal.com

Well,it seems were Sellers on EBAY have NO Right anyway,
there is NO Alternative to get directly paid by our Customers without a third Eye like PAYPAL watchin' every step we do.
We are literally forced by EBAY to use PAYPAL!!!
You could go the old fashioned Way and accept Moneyorders,Cashiers Check and...wait forever till'you receive your Payment Customer made!!!
The PAYPAL MAFIA swallows your Money as soon as they
recognize you got more than $500 in your Account,
it is reason enough for some Kid to freeze your Account
and spent it somewhere over the Weekend!!!
Of course BIG BROTHER EBAY covers their Back
so they all can Party like a happy Family
with our hard earned Money!!!

I find it amusing how the general media is claiming GBuy will be a significant competitor to Paypal based on GBuy having near zero buyers actually using the service vs over 100MM using Paypal. Let's recall something here folks. In its current form, GBuy is a glorified merchant account.

There are tons of opportunities out there, but the new need to be open to spot something that's just under your nose!
free software

hi just tell me which one has more acces around the glob any universal payment system.

hi just tell me which one has more acces around the glob any universal payment system.
Resell Ebooks
Resell Software
Resell Scripts

I am so grateful to see there is finally a real alternative to PayPal. I have not been a PayPal fan & find PayPal to be only viable for small ticket items, subscriptions or ebay transactions. It is too hard to get your money out of PayPal - who wants a monthly limit to the amount of money you can withdraw or be forced to use a debit card to buy other stuff??? Who wants the hassle of slowly withdrawing your money?

I love the incentives for AdWords users! I have been using AdWords to effectively grow my business over the past few years. Now Google is rewarding me for services I already use… it is a win win. I continue to grow my business & get to process my orders through Google Checkout. It appears I may have to FIRE my merchant account provider now due to the fees they charge. This is a HUGE savings annually.

I have begun to use Google Checkout for my mid-ticket items & it seems flawless thus far!

Thank you Google!

There it goes. I'm really glad, if I can say so, that a person has finally discovered this issue that's been bothering me for a long time. Indeed, thank you Google, as Michael Hamburger said!

Google checkout is great but still paypal has more advantage like they are accepting payment from 55 countries and google only from two.

Google checkout is great only see the issue while calculate shipping with UPS and server call back time is only 3 sec.

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Warning: date() expects parameter 2 to be long, string given in /usr/www/users/chrisycm/kmm-network/includes/rss2html/rss2html.php on line 620

Warning: date() expects parameter 2 to be long, string given in /usr/www/users/chrisycm/kmm-network/includes/rss2html/rss2html.php on line 621

Warning: date() expects parameter 2 to be long, string given in /usr/www/users/chrisycm/kmm-network/includes/rss2html/rss2html.php on line 622

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